Monday, 13 March 2017

Game of Thrones Gossip #6 Jaime and Cersei

Welcome to my Game of Thrones Gossip, where all of us fanatics get the chance to discuss everything we love about this amazing TV series. I did a few spoiler free posts about the series last year but I found that there were other bloggers out there who were also itching to talk more freely about favourite characters and events without spoiling things for those visiting the blog. So I decided to do a whole series of these discussion posts that let us say everything we want and enjoy every second of it! The topics may talk about a death, an event, a character or be season reviews and so on. Please feel free to comment fully and without restriction!

I have to warn you that it is important that you have seen all six seasons before reading any of these posts because these posts and blogger comments will be oozing and exploding spoilers all over the place. If you haven't watched the series and plan to, be warned that it's a bad idea to be here right now! I take no responsibility if you read on and things are spoiled for you nor do I take responsibility for any mistakes on the pages I link you to.

This time I continue with my season one themes and look at the incest relationship between Jaime and Cersei Lannister. They were the siblings born to the ruthless Tywin Lannister whose beloved wife died giving birth to their brother Tyrion, something that Tywin and Cersei never forgave Tyrion for. Jaime on the other hand continues to show great love for his younger brother throughout the series, his most redeeming quality.

It is not exactly clear in the TV series how long Jaime and Cersei have been sleeping together: maybe that is covered more in the books, but it is clear that Jaime has fathered her three children so it has been a long running affair. It is also clear that Jaime loves his sister with all his heart and would do anything for her, including trying to murder Bran Stark when he discovers their sordid secret, but Cersei continues to take other men including her cousin Lancel to her bed, proving that her feelings may not be as strong as Jaime's. There is no doubt that Cersei rules this particular relationship.

The Targaryen's have been in-breeding through the generations to keep their line pure in their minds which might certainly explain the bad behaviour of The Mad King, as it was said that incest breeds mutated children, instability and madness. It certainly would explain the asshat that is Joffrey...Public opinion would not have been kind to this relationship and is was conducted in secret, with Robert Baratheon being credited as father of the three children. He certainly failed his children and with Jaime unable to be anything other than uncle, a chance to temper Joffrey's madness was lost, leaving him to be schooled and groomed as a psycho by Cersei, who then loses total control of him.

Cersei was never ashamed of the relationship, telling Ned Stark that she was glad her children were fathered by Jaime and not Robert-and I can't really blame her for having that opinion. Robert was a dreadful husband and father until on his deathbed he tells Joffrey that he should have basically been more of a father to him. Joffrey obviously cared for Robert as he shed tears for him as he lay dying but his reaction to rumours of his real parantage had him killing Robert's bastards for fear of a challenge to the throne. I don't think he was greatly happy at what he was hearing. Cersei is more interested in having her own influence over things, which is restricted by her father because she is a woman, and sees her chance first through her children and then through the overthrow of the High Sparrow with the carnage that followed.I don't think that Cersei is as keen on the 'disabled' version of Jaime as when he was the glorious Kingsguard.

Jaime has the worst of the deal I think. Joining the Kingsguard meant that Jaime was giving up all rights to inherit land, marry and have children, leaving Cersei as his only source of love and affection. Whatever you think of incest, Jaime is certainly devoted to her, killing to protect her secrets. when Bran sees too much. My feeling about Jaime is that he is actually a decent man who has made bad choices all through the influence of a bad woman. We seen in those touching scenes with Myrcella just before her death that he would have been a good father. He stepped in several times to save Brienne from rape and murder. He tries to stop Tyrion's trial by making a deal with Tywin and when it doesn't work, he helps his brother escape. In those final scenes of season six, we see Jaime perhaps realising for the first time that Cersei loves power more than she will ever love him. What is in store for them next could be fascinating! Jaime could have turned out more like Ned Stark with a different family around him but there is hope for his redemption.

Incest is one of those plots, like rape, that really divide an audience. Things like this in a TV series don't really bother me if the plot is well written and gripping. I think the incest storyline adds a lot of depth and shapes both of these characters and does lead to some great moments in the series such as Jaime and Myrcella, and Bran's fate. Others will have different views.

So what are your thoughts on the relationship? Would Jaime be a good man without Cersei to control him? Does the incest storyline add interest to the plot or would you prefer it wasn't there? What do you think the dynamic in this relationship is?


  1. I think Jaime would be a great man without Cercei in his life. I have always held out hope for a relationship between him and Brianna but I'm pretty sure it will never happen. I think Jaime would be a great father and as time goes on, even though he loves his sister, I think he sees her for the horrible person she is. The incest storyline doesn't bother me too much because I'm sure it was an actual thing back then. Pus it does add to the dynamic of the show and I don't think it's just thrown in for shock value - at least it doesn't seem to be. Great post!

    1. I really hated Jaime in season one and the start of season two but when he stopped Brienne being raped I slowly started to see the good in him. I'd love them to be a couple and Jaime to kill Cersei! I actually fear Cersei might kill him though. Most 'shocking' storylines don't greatly bother me in these series either as long as it adds drama!

  2. Ah, Jaime and Cersei. It's fascinating to me how Joffrey to please his "dad" (Robert), even going so far as to hire the assassin to kill Bran after hearing Robert make an offhand comment how he wouldn't want to be an invalid (not sure if the show handled that). And Jaime... I won't spoil it, but I will say there's an explanation that we get in the third book that explains exactly WHY Jaime was pissed off- it all has to do with the Mad King and Tywin's relationship and he and cersei were pawns. It made me like Jaime a LOT more.

    I have alays had a disconnect between the honrable man he's TRYING to be in book and show, and the fact that he hurled Bran to his intended death. I almost think Martin didn't know way back in book one that he was going to do a redemption arc for Jaime, so he was nastier then. Just my theory.

    I think Jaime would always be a bit arrogant and a jerk, he's good at what he does and he knows it, but yes without Cersei's influence he could have been a phenomenal figure, akin perhaps to Rhaegar? After all he knew Rhaegar and Arthur Dayne and all the last great knights, and he remarks at one point something about how he wanted to be like Dayne but ended up instead like one of the outlaw knights they used to hunt down. It's fascinating seeing in his head in book three.

    I hope you don't mind me bringing the books up...

    1. Actually I enjoy getting imput from the book point of view from you! I had no idea it was Joffrey that hired the is kind of left in the series for you to assume it was Cersei who did it, unless I missed something. Need to re-watch the early episodes again and then read the books! I find it fun to watch a bad character turn good in some kind of redemption. Not just Jaime but The Hound too. Or a good character go on a dark journey-that can be fun too! I hope we see good Jaime righting a few wrongs in future episodes!

    2. I do too! And I'm glad you don't mind me bringing the books up... you know me, once I get started lol. Seriously though it's so cool when you realize in book three that Jaime KNEW all those badass knights, all the big names, and actually served with them. Imagine everyone being in that upper echelon like Barristan selmy. The Kingsguard was a big deal then.

      And yes the Hound too- another good one. :)

    3. I really have to read the books. It just needs to be done! I think all the detail about these characters is going to fascinate me when I get into the books. I have several big series to tackle so I'm still struggling to decide whether to do them first or just get to GoT. Gah, I hate when you want to read everything right now!